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2003-02-19 2:22 p.m.

I had an interesting conversation with a friend today, and I realized that I now think a little differently than I did for most of my conscious life. Instead of vilifying one group, I think that I am starting to see that it takes two to tango and keep a system running—for better or for worse.

Smart Friend: Man, this girl sure likes to be 15 and talk about sex.

Justin: Most people at that age are really obsessed with sex as they get used to their bodies and the hormones and stuff. Some more than others. Were you? I would imagine not so much.

Smart Friend: not at all

Justin: So, which sort of teenage experience do you think is more common? And, do you think one is more "right" or "adjusted" than the other?

Smart Friend: I think girls are sexualized way to young, and that tons of them end up doing things they regret

Justin: What about guys?

Smart Friend: I see the older guys bringing it on the girls—17 year olds and 14 year olds and stuff. I wish i had had sex much earlier, but not like 14.

Justin: Well, the thing is that boys their own age are not as ready for that sort of thing. So, they look for people who are a better match in terms of certain energies. But, there are other problems with this. Just because their libidos can match doesn't mean that their other stuff matches...

Smart Friend: Yeah, cos girls develop faster

Justin: It has always been easy for me to vilify the older men who it appears "prey" on the younger girls...but as I look at it more, I think that may an unfair point of view. In many ways, the women demand to have those men. They request this interchange -- even though it is only partly in their best interest. So, I think I will shift my view to thinking that they both seem to get what they want,, as precarious or benevolent as it may be.

Smart Friend: I don't think they are old enough to know what they want, and the media fucks up girls so bad at that age anyway. They think they want something, which they really don't

Justin: But, what about the ones that really do (want this or that)?

Smart Friend: Well, what does a 18 year old guy see in a 14 year old girl, besides sex? nothing. this ingrains unhealthy relationships within in the from an early age... they learn that sex is desirable, before they even know what a relationship is or can be...

Smart Friend: thats not a good way to start life, in my opinion

Justin: So, what if you are a girl and you are 15 and you want A and B. And the guys your age don't want A or B. But, these 18 year old guys want A and B. Should they date the younger ones anyway?

Smart Friend: I think so, i just think that the vast majority of influence wielded by 18 year olds on younger girls is bad

Justin: I think that you -- like I always did -- vilify the male entirely. All blame is removed from the female in that paradigm.

Smart Friend: Well, what bad influence can the girl have on the male? The only way the girl can be vilified is by bring it on herself.

Justin: Ways a female at that age affect a male in negative ways: Emotional manipulation, taking advantage, unfair expectations imposed on the male -- all of these things cause the male a lot of pain and usually result in long lasting issues.

Smart Friend: I just think that is the vast minority, no one hears about 18 year old guys being sexually traumatized by 15 year old sluts.

Justin: Sexually traumatized, surely not. But, emotionally, yes.

Smart Friend: I think the male mind is much less affected by things like that, especially the minds of the guys doing it in the first place

Justin: Guys can be pretty numb, yes.

Smart Friend: plus i don't think the 18 year old guys doing that develop emotional attachment, they are in it for sex

Justin: Yeah. They can still be hurt, though. But, I think that the problem is that we vilify them for something which is not an intellectual decision but is actually biological. That is the stage their physiology is at right then, yet we expect them to be philosophical geniuses with the self control of a monk. Is that fair?

Smart Friend: You cant really deny your own dick. But rather than going for the easy target of a 15 year old girl, why not go for someone who is also 18? Cos the 15 year olds are the ones wearing the shirts that say "90% angel" and "slut", not the 18 year olds.

Justin: Well, also the 18 year olds now want something that the 18 year old guys are not ready to give them. So they also must move on to even older men.

Smart Friend: Blah, its all unhealthy. It's different for everyone. In a perfect world, everyone would lose their virginity to a virgin.

Justin: That is a pretty intense judgment to make on the world.

Smart Friend: I think that sexualization at an earlier age would be alright, if our country was more accepting of sex.

Justin: Yeah, that is a good point.

Smart Friend: If it was more out in the open and talked about. But the way our country is afraid of it, teenage girls have to hide and junk and it gets messy and then...bang! They are "unhealthy sexually". We really need to empower women in ways other than sex at a young age.

Justin: Yeah, that is really a product of our mores and "values". It is not so good, and it fosters such shame and pain.

Smart Friend: But I don't really know the first thing about sex, so this is all just my opinion.

Justin: Still, it is interesting stuff.